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Looking for alternatives to Nylon PA12. I need a material that is extremely impact resistant, durable and can be left outside. PA12 performs like a dream but it warps intensely on thick parts, so I'm stuck with ASA for now which is rather weak.

I've tried different PA6 blends, Taulman 910, CF and GF filled Nylons, they are brittle and all inferior to ASA. I tried looking for Taulman 230 or 618 but they don't seem to be produced anymore and are out of stock everywhere except eBay.

AzulShiva
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  • Let me throw two materials in the bucket I have no experience with: PC/ASA blend, PCTG – AzulShiva Jan 15 '22 at 23:03
  • Have you tried, to improve PA12 printing, to use a draft shield (you can even add a second one if you model it separately) and/or IR lamps to keep the part hot even without an enclosure? they work quite well – FarO Jan 26 '22 at 08:40
  • @FarO IR lamps? Never heard of that, I will look into it. Thanks. – AzulShiva Mar 16 '22 at 10:04
  • Calling Taulman 910 Nylon "brittle" must be the understatement of the decade. I've yet to see a material that is "less brittle". My larger 910 prints are indestructible by human force, you can throw them on concrete until your arms wear out, you can't break them. Only thin prints can be bent, if you are strong. They are longterm durable, I used one for a huge glass door hinge (in a moist environment) No. Taulman 910 is not brittle. – John May 16 '22 at 12:51
  • "You can throw them on concrete until your arms wear out, you can't break them" I've thrown large parts printed out of PLA 3D870 on concrete and they held out pretty well. – AzulShiva May 17 '22 at 14:08
  • @John Submerge it in water, then see what happens: It becomes soft and you can tear it apart. Conversely, air dry it in an oven at 50C, then smack it with a hammer. Make sure you wear safety glasses... It shatters with the freezer test as well. We've run countless experiments with Taulman 910, and all-around it's garbage. I've discussed the issues with the staff at 3d-printerstore.ch and they sent concerned e-mails to Taulman, since, before the tests, they were actually recommending that stuff to customers. – AzulShiva May 17 '22 at 14:10
  • "I've yet to see a material that is "less brittle"" You can't top Lauramid N01 in that department. I've smashed some small parts into an unrecogniseable pulp of plastic with a large hammer. But it's really expensive. – AzulShiva May 17 '22 at 14:13
  • @AzulShiva Nylon is not meant for underwater applications... I have two Taulman 910 hinges in use for a 100+ kg glass-door in a 24/7 75-80% humidity spa room. It is literally indestructible by human force as soon as you have some mm wall strength. The hinges are in use for two years by now and there is no degradation. They rely on a rather thin layer of nylon that can be bent (moveable) which is used at least a few times per day. In addition I printed Taulman 910 for a underwater pump impeller which is used by a 160W pool cleaning robot. That softened up but works. – John May 18 '22 at 15:44
  • @AzulShiva regarding "drying at 50°C over night". That would be a wrong application of Nylon as well. Nylon gains it great properties when it draws some water from the air, it makes not much sense to dry your parts as that reduces their great properties temporarily. Though I do have the completely dry filament rolls and those 3mm strings of nylon are indestructible by human force as well. Except if you bend it many many times sharply. – John May 18 '22 at 15:47
  • @AzulShiva lastly: Your explanation of brittle Taulman 910 is so extremely far from my experience (the most durable material I have used, indestructible and long-term useable) that there might be something else at play. For example: your filament is not original, you printed it at completely wrong temperatures, no warm chamber (layer adhesion alone doesn't explain it though) – John May 18 '22 at 15:49
  • @John They guys at the shop are professionals of the highest tier. Like I said, if it becomes dry, it's brittle. They were brittle during the summer, and strong during the winter, due to moisture differences. If you live in Afghanistan, it will always be brittle. In Great Britain it might work out. It's a very unpredictable and unreliable material. Trust me, we have tested this thoroughly. – AzulShiva May 24 '22 at 19:44
  • @AzulShiva Your statement remains as incorrect as it can get. T-910 is a PA-12 (Nylon) material which comes out completely dry after printing and it's extremely durable, 3-4mm strength already indestructible by human force. When it is in normal environment it adds some percent water into it's chain which make it even better. Stratasys VeroUltra (PA-6), Makerforged Onyx (PA-12) both are Nylon intended for most durable use. Makerforged barely uses another material for that reason. I'll head out of this argument now, no more information can be added. – John May 25 '22 at 16:14

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You ask about alternative and I will provide two, but for you rinformation both Taulman 618 and 230 can be easily bought in Europe therefore they must be still in production. Also, I'm not sure which kind of problem with PA12 you have, but if it's adhesion and warping, you can get good adhesion with PA12 if you print on garolite (fr4) boards. If they are thick enough they will avoid warping too, check here:

I don't know exactly which performances you expect for your part, but based on the specifications for Fiberlogy PA12 related to impact strength, tensile strength and softening temperature and HDT, I would say that you have two options.

If you are looking for a nylon-like filament for its strength and properties but you want it to print easily, like a PETG, you are looking exactly for Polymaker CoPA. It does not warp during print, it does not require a heated enclosure (in fact, they specify that the ambient temperature must be below 50 °C!).

See various reviews here.

Another option are Polycarbonate blends, where polycarbonate is mixed with other materials to make it easily printable, are a good choice. Polycarbonate is strong and routinely used for parts exposed outdoor.

Obviously you need a hotend reaching 300 °C for both alternatives.

I haven't tried Polymax PC personally, but the reviews and the experiences in various chats groups I follow are particularly good. It can be printed even on printers without enclosure, or at most placed inside a cardboard box to avoid air drafts.

Just remember however that polycarbonate is not resistant to some oils and some greases, that's why it's not used for parts in contact with bearings and so on. It becomes brittle, it cracks and breaks. It is likely not your case.

You can find two useful reviews about Polymaker Polymax PC here and here. Prusament PC is a similar blend with similar properties and printability.

Let me paste the second review if you doubt about its strength.

This is bar none the most printable for the strength polycarbonate. Absolutely no warping printing at 100mm/s at 110C bed temp and 295C print temp laying down PVA gluestick on glass.The printing experience doesn't even feel like an exotic engineering filament because of how easy it is to work with. Layer adhesion is very good. I print primarily at 100% infill with parts that are routinely 10" wide by 4" tall with no curl up issues. There is some shrinking upon cool down in the x,y axis, but it is to be expected with a thermal plastic (~0.6-1%). Now on to the strength. This stuff is strong. Printing a 1.5"x1.5" square tube insert, I misjudged the thermal shrinking (assumed too much) and the insert pressure fitted into the tube. Long story short, after trying to back out the part I eventually resorted to whacking on the insert with a hammer. For 30 minutes, I religiously swung with a might that only Thor would understand on this black Mythril-like object stuck at the end of my tube insert. Sweating profusely I gave it one mighty cloud-parting swing to the side of this object of torment. It broke the damn hammer handle in half. My heart crushed, the sun fading, and my neighbors watching from their windows I retreated a defeated man to my kitchen drenched in the sweats of my failure. Too sickened to muster the courage to inspect my handiwork, but too curious to look away, I set the object on my kitchen counter and began the awful process of inspecting it. Like a strange autopsy by cell phone light, I stared blankly at the effects of my entire human worth condensed into hammer swings. Not a single dent. Not one. "Impossible!"- I told myself. But the evidence of my lack of human value lay before me for all to bear. Sitting there, mocking me, a single scratch. Set there presumably by the object itself to torment me.

Two Youtube reviews follow.

FarO
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  • Nylon 6 gets brittle when dry and soft when wet, the video confirmed it. PC is brittle, not for taking a beating. PC blends is what Im experimenting with right now, but they are not environmentally resistant. G10 sounds interesting, but in order to print Nylon 12 I have turned off the heated bed entirely and covered the bed with superglue. It still warped and my bed is trashed. The guys at the professional printer store told me the only way to print large parts out of Nylon 12 is to get a printer with a heated enclosure that can go above 100C which cost 5000$ upwards. – AzulShiva Jan 21 '22 at 15:09
  • PCTG is drying in the oven right now, can't wait to test it tomorrow. – AzulShiva Jan 21 '22 at 15:10
  • You did not specify it in your answer but you do realise PolyMide COPA is a Nylon 6, Nylon 6,6 blend? Those are not tough lol, smack them with a hammer and you will see. ASA is superior. – AzulShiva Jan 21 '22 at 15:14
  • @AzulShiva CoPA is rated at about 10 kJ/m^2 impact strength and PA12 at 12 kJ/m^2. I would say they are not very different. I gave you the closest alternatives, but your question was quite generic concerning requirements and printer available so it's not possible to do more. Since you don't write what you are actually doing with it, you could even pick a hard TPU (98A or harder) and print 100% infill. Impact-wise it will outperform PA12. Of course it will be softer too. – FarO Jan 21 '22 at 15:29
  • You can print at 100 °C environment also with an Ender 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79r5D9nCQfM – FarO Jan 21 '22 at 15:36
  • 100C environment will destroy every part on the printer. Nylon 6 and 12 are very, very different. Impact resistance of Nylon 6 can change by magnitudes of 1000x depending on it's moisture level, not so with PA12. Naturally it's extremely brittle. But thank you for your answer. I've talked to professionals and it appears there isn't anything between Nylon 12 and ASA quality wise except PC blends and PCTG (and unprintable stuff like PE). – AzulShiva Jan 21 '22 at 18:49
  • Are you sure that PC blends don't work outdoor? They usually have little amount of additivt therefore it's still mostly polycarbonate, which should work well outdoor. – FarO Jan 21 '22 at 22:04
  • Have you tried PA12+CF? – FarO Jan 24 '22 at 09:38
  • PC blends and CF are more brittle, in my opinion ASA is just better (and cheaper). PC/ABS is not suitable for outdoors, PC/ASA should work, but I couldn't find any of it to buy. I was informed by my store of a new filament on the market, Lauramid PA12. It's even softer than ASA but ridiculously durable and practically indestructable if you get layer adhesion right. Also much easier to print than ordinary PA12. I only got a small 100g test sample but will do more tests. It's price is above 100 per kg, but it's great stuff. Also I tested PCTG and it's garbage. – AzulShiva Mar 16 '22 at 10:03
  • But what do you need to print exactly? it would make the question clearer. – FarO Mar 16 '22 at 13:59
  • "extremely impact resistant, durable and can be left outside" Let's say: a crossbow or a knife handle. Im experimenting with metal reinforcement. Works really well with ASA. If reinforced properly the difference to Nylon becomes almost negligible. – AzulShiva Mar 21 '22 at 10:32